Added on October 4, 2012 John Fleming

Opinion: a defence of rape jokes…

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Janey Godley

A comedian phoned me yesterday evening, angry that another comedian was Tweeting trying to get comedy performers and promoters to sign up for a ‘No Rape Jokes’ pledge.

The idea is to ban comedians who tell rape jokes.

The first promoter to have ‘signed the pledge’ appears to be a club that only allows female comedians to perform, which seems a little ironic. I am thinking of opening a comedy club at which Jewish performers are banned but at which no rape jokes would be allowed. No problem there, then.

Trying to ban rape jokes is like trying to put sticking plaster over a symptom to hide an unsightly abscess, not cure the problem. It is the wrong target. The aim, surely, should be trying to stop audiences laughing at rape jokes.

Unless – in my opinion – they are funny.

Funny is funny.

I have known and worked with three women who were raped as children. All bore psychological scars. Obviously.

When I hear a comedian tell a rape joke, I cringe because of this. But also because the comedian is usually getting an easy laugh. He (seldom she) knows the audience will laugh in shock because the subject is in bad taste. They used to be able to get a laugh by just using the word “fuck”. That word’s shock value disappeared. Then it was the word “cunt”. Now that word on its own no longer gets a laugh.

But now you can get an easy laugh by telling a rape joke or a joke about (presumably) murdered little girl Madeleine McCann or her parents. It is lazy comedy. Knee-jerk comedy.

I do not like rape jokes. By and large. The comedians who tell them are bad comedians. By and large.

But Scottish comedian Jerry Sadowitz has told rape jokes. He is a brilliant comedian. The jokes were funny. I laughed. I enjoyed the jokes as jokes.

Fellow Scottish comedian Janey Godley (who was repeatedly raped as a child) used to tell stories around the subject of child abuse and rape. There is a fascinating clip on YouTube of her starting her act.

Normally, I do not repeat comedians’ routines. But this one is worth repeating because what is being said is in no way funny yet it gets big laughs because, as Frank Carson might have said: “It’s the way she tells ‘em”.

It is a masterclass in how to get laughs from an audience.

Janey says:

“When I was five, I was sexually abused by my uncle… Now, I don’t want you to all rush the stage and give me a hug, cos it’s OK… cos I got him killed for my birthday later on (AUDIENCE LAUGHS)… Yeah (AUDIENCE LAUGHS)… No, I did (BIGGER AUDIENCE LAUGHS)… That’s no a joke (AUDIENCE LAUGHS)… Yeah (AUDIENCE LAUGHS)… Got his cock cut off (AUDIENCE LAUGHS)… So… (AUDIENCE LAUGHS)…”

Wanting to ban jokes about rape is indefensible if you do not also want to ban jokes about murder. And, if you ban talking about certain things at live gigs then, logically, you have to ban the same things on television and in print.

It is a short and slippery slope from banning jokes to burning books.

Comedian Bob Slayer disagrees with me. He supports attempts to ban rape jokes in comedy clubs.

“Of course,” he says, “all of this will require a comedy police force to ensure that these rules are adhered to. Someone will have to vet every comedian, judge them before they even do their first open mic gig and award them with a provisional licence to perform clean, pre-approved jokes. They can then work towards proving they are capable of a full comedy licence to make up their own jokes.

“A comedian licence would work along similar lines as the one for buskers on the London Underground. It used to be that buskers who were homeless and looked like they were only busking in order to keep in the dry were driven outside to think about their lives while they slowly died of cold.

“Thankfully, they were then replaced by college students and trustafarians who had achieved at least grade 4 on their chosen instrument. These approved buskers were then given a laminated badge and allowed to entertain commuters with officially sanctioned playlists.

“I look forward to comedy being ordered in the same way.”

John Fleming blogs at thejohnfleming.wordpress.com.

by John Fleming

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http://sonnetreviews.tumblr.com SImon Moore

As you point out, there can be good contextual justifications for jokes on the subject of rape, but like jokes on any sensitive subject, they need to be approached with care and properly thought through. I’m all in favour of this conversation as I’m sure it will make newer comedians think twice before using such material.

I would say that jokes on rape should be avoided unless they are, and can be, *justified* (funniness should be implicit in the word ‘joke’).

However, neither hyperbole nor irony are helpful in this conversation. While the petition and pledge system against rape jokes is clearly unenforceable (you’re petitioning ‘every promoter in the country’? Who else has the power to enforce such a rule nationwide? Give me a water-tight definition of a rape joke.), I don’t think the current conversation is unreasonable. Your comments about anti-semitism and book-burning are hugely OTT, and detrimental to a serious and tricky subject that we should be able to talk about like reasonable adults.

A lot of the issue with the recent Chortle piece on this subject was its ham-fisted irony. Sometimes, and in this conversation in particular (perhaps also in Lewis Schaffer’s recent piece on this site), we need to be very careful to highlight when we’re being ironic. Presenting Bob Slayer’s (unhelpfully ironic) comments as an opposing view to yours is unhelpful.

I am not being ironic.
Jo

I think the issue is less about whether it’s funny or a bit hack, but the potential harm it could cause.

Would you tell a rape joke if you knew a rape victim was in the audience? 1 in 3 women have suffered sexual assault. You are pretty much ALWAYS doing a rape joke to a rape victim. How edgy.

I don’t think rape as a topic should be off limits, but we all know the type of joke we mean when we have debates like this. Who is the butt of the joke? It can be the rapist, the way society reacts to rape, or the victim. We really REALLY need to start thinking about what we’re saying. If you wouldn’t make that joke to a rape victim directly, then don’t pick up a microphone and repeat it to several all at once. How do you think that makes them feel?

How many women are in the room trying not to react? They want to give the game away about how they’re feeling because rape is still seen as shameful for the woman. The media frequently refer to women ‘admitting’ they’ve been raped, which is unlike any other crime. They’re sitting there, being reminded of a horrific experience, having to hide it, and are surrounded by people laughing at it. Why is it even a debate about whether or not it’s ok?

So it’s a bit hack, it’s a bit lazy, it’s a bit of a cop out getting laughs for shock rather than content, but who cares? If it’s directly hurting people (and it is) then it’s not acceptable.

You have responsibility for what you say in a one on one conversation with someone, that personal responsibility doesn’t vanish when your voice is amplified.

How about instead of having bans on certain types of jokes, we all just tried not to be a douche? That could work.

(Excuse how badly written this is, the curse of the phone).
http://www.gigglebeats.co.uk/ Elliott Clarke

I was trying to put my response to this article into words, and failed miserably (whoops – what kind of writer am I?).

Luckily, Jo pretty much summed it up. It may not necessarily be that any joke on the subject of sexual abuse is offensive, but it’s an incredibly difficult thing to judge –

“Let’s try not to be a douche” will do me fine as a rule for jokes, life, and jokes about life.

Elliott.
http://everyoneneedsanalgonquin.com/ Agatha Whitt-Wellington (Miss)

Phone or no phone, Jo, you hit the mark perfectly. When the focus becomes rules about words, the real issues aren’t addressed (and if anything, those who think rape jokes make them edgy will think breaking the rules about rape jokes makes them even edgier).
Like Elliott, I may adapt “Let’s try not to be a douche” as my personal life philosophy, by which I, of course, mean the phrase will be my next lower back tattoo.
colm

What Bob Slayer says at the end is just ridiculous. Giving people a license to do stand-up? It’s not busking, no homeless people are going into open mic nights to keep warm.
Who makes the conditions for a license? Someone who doesn’t like rape jokes. Maybe then their wife gets cancer and cancer jokes aren’t allowed anymore.
If you’re going into a comedy club you have to expect that the jokes may offend you. Some jokes touch on edgy material but sometimes they are very important. Yes, there will always be hacks saying shocking things to get a cheap laugh but if you take journalism as an example, it wouldn’t be right for a paper to ignore an issue because it’s unsettling or controversial. The same goes for comedy.